Posts by Doug Mason

56

Is this a new "This Generation" or not?

by Doug Mason in

first of all i want to express my sincere gratitude to atlantis and his good friends for making this 2014 book available.. ------------.

as i see it, and i am absolutely open to contradiction, the wts appears to be giving another new meaning to this generation.

this time the term means all of his anointed followers, including his immediate disciples.

Doug Mason

Of course Russell and his friends did not have the current "understanding" of 1914. They anticipated that 1914 would usher in unprecedented peace under the rule of the Zionists.

And we can see how peaceful they are.

Doug

56

Is this a new "This Generation" or not?

by Doug Mason in

first of all i want to express my sincere gratitude to atlantis and his good friends for making this 2014 book available.. ------------.

as i see it, and i am absolutely open to contradiction, the wts appears to be giving another new meaning to this generation.

this time the term means all of his anointed followers, including his immediate disciples.

I suppose the sentence that interested me is: "The apostles would soon be anointedwith holy spirit" (italics are mine). And Jesus was speaking to them "privately" (as he does to the GB). So is the WTS including the apostles (or disciples) whom Jesus was speaking to as part of "this generation"?

If it were saying this, then their "this generation" continues until there is no more "anointed one" (on Earth), making it quite open-ended and unrelated to a time period, or maybe no longer related to 1914.

Of course, the argument would be raised that when Jesus said these to his apostles (disciples?), they were not yet part of the WTS's "anointed" so they were not yet part of "this generation".

Or am I crediting the WTS with too much thinking ability in this para?

Doug

56

Is this a new "This Generation" or not?

by Doug Mason in

first of all i want to express my sincere gratitude to atlantis and his good friends for making this 2014 book available.. ------------.

as i see it, and i am absolutely open to contradiction, the wts appears to be giving another new meaning to this generation.

this time the term means all of his anointed followers, including his immediate disciples.

Doug Mason

First of all I want to express my sincere gratitude to Atlantis and his good friends for making this 2014 book available.

------------

As I see it, and I am absolutely open to contradiction, the WTS appears to be giving another new meaning to “This Generation”. This time the term means all of his “anointed followers”, including his immediate Disciples. The following is from this new book:

“This generation.” Did Jesus have in mind unbelievers? No, … when Jesus spoke of “this generation,” he had in mind his anointed followers. (“God’s Kingdom Rules!”, page 11, para 16, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, 2014, italics in the original)

Doug

13

July 15 Awake - strange quote and i'm not sure what else...

by Gladring in

i was trying to find the source of the michael j. tyler quote in the was it designed article in the jul 15 awake, when i came across this website.. was this posted before the magazine?

is the watchtower passing someone else's work off as their own, or the other way round?.

also, can anyone find the source of the quote?

Doug Mason

OK. I have ordered a copy of Tyler's book on frogs. It's from the Western Australian Museum. My interest will be to see if it provides me with a contact to Mr tyler and see if he has any comment on his being linked to creationism. Unless one of you can find out from him first.

It's interesting that on pages 12-13 of that Awake, that once more they have to resort to a JW scientist as support.

Doug

13

July 15 Awake - strange quote and i'm not sure what else...

by Gladring in

i was trying to find the source of the michael j. tyler quote in the was it designed article in the jul 15 awake, when i came across this website.. was this posted before the magazine?

is the watchtower passing someone else's work off as their own, or the other way round?.

also, can anyone find the source of the quote?

Doug Mason

That is not a quotation mark at the end of the citation from Awake!. It is a star after the Awake's opinion sentence, pointing to poor old Charlie Darwin.

Doug

17

God supported Neco instead of His faithful king

by opusdei1972 in

if you read the chapter 23 of the book of 1 kings, you will note that josiah was one of best kings of judah.

he did many good things in favor to yahweh-worshipping.

let's read:.

Doug Mason

opus,

Read the "books" from the outside. The books of Kings and Chronicles were written at different times by different people for different religio-political purposes.

Kings was compiled during the neo-Babylonian captivity by people "explaining" their parlous state. They rewrote their history to show that this destruction (of their authority) had all come about because the nation and the royal household had not heeded the prophets (and hence the voice of the priests - at Jerusalem). Kings is part of this created history that begins with Deuteronomy and includes Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings. This is known as the Deuteronomic History. Those Kings who disobeyed the whims of the Jerusalem priesthood were "bad" but those who succumbed to their will - such as Josiah - were "good". Jeremiah started his priestly calling under Josiah and hence held him in highest regard.

Chronicles, however was written much later, during the Persian era. While the writer(s) - likely Ezra - accepted much of Kings, some of it did not suit his religio-political views. So he made subtle changes; just consider the relative stories about Manasseh (spelling?). They portray him very differently.

These differences in allegiances affected other parts of the written record. For example, it is necessary to disentangle those parts in the writings of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers which were written by those having allegiance to Aaron (those of the Aaronic priesthood) from those having allegiance to Moses.

The Bible world is not flat.

Doug

29

"God-breathed Scriptures"

by Doug Mason in

my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.

there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .

doug.

Doug Mason

Phizzy,

I like it! Thanks for your sharp eyes. I can see how that happened (two hernias). I blame the OCR conversion of the PDF scan, but in reality I simply missed it.

I have fixed it, so no one need have two hernias in their copy.

Doug

29

"God-breathed Scriptures"

by Doug Mason in

my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.

there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .

doug.

Doug Mason

Emery,

Please make your own study of 2 Timothy and the associated aspects. I want my ideas to stimulate personal research. Make use of bits of my findings but do not rely only on what I have come to understand. Use it as a starter. The joy is in the search, the excitement is in the discovery. So you must make it your own.

This Study, as I wrote, is a direct response the those two online articles from the "Insight" book. I traverse similar territory in another Study:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Why_Does_WTS_Accept_Christendoms_Scriptures.pdf

but more extensively and with different reference sources. Read the books that I cite - and others ("St Paul versus St Peter" by Michael Goulder is essential reading).

I know for certain that no two people will take to same outcomes from my writings, that no one will see it as I have done. Unlike the WTS, which demands lock-step uniformity, my pleasure comes in seeing the diversity. I am enjoying the contributions to this Thread.

There are so many other features that this subject touches on. With the contents of the Christian Church's OT and NT, it is so important to try to get to grips with the dynamics of those first few hundred years. The Pauline sect ultimately dominated because of a vision - a dream - by a Roman Emperor. The Romans could not tolerate dissension, so Emperors such as Constantine and Theodosius became intimately involved, making decrees in order to ensure harmony.

Consider the person Paul: his are the earliest writings and he says he did not get his ideas from any man - and was totally opposed to Jerusalem - but they came to him in dreams/visions. So where did he get the words supposedly spoken at the "Last Supper"? Further, why did the later people who wrote the Gospel follow Paul's account? Was Paul a mystic steeped in Greek thinking? How did he reinvent the meanings in the Hebrew Scriptures? What would Christianity be like if we only had the Gospel stories of Jesus?

Thank you for your reference from Barnes.

Soldier on.

Doug

29

"God-breathed Scriptures"

by Doug Mason in

my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.

there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .

doug.

Doug Mason

Eden,

You are absolutely correct. You will find discussions on whether the inserted "is" is valid and whether the rendering should be "every God-inspired Scripture is beneficial" Some also ask whether it should be "all" Scripture or "every" Scripture.

For me and my biases, I suggest that the theme of the passage and of the whole letter is a pastoral encouragement of Timothy to preach and teach, so this particular adjective needs to be read in that context. Thus "every God-inspired Scripture" would sit most happily. I think it is possible that some are caught up in the idea that "this happened because that is what God would have done", thereby presuming what they want to prove.

Having done this, problems with "inspiration" referring to the corrupted texts that Timothy (Paul and Jesus) heard means that a new term had to be invented for the original words: "inscripturation", as well as expressions such as "verbal plenary". Layer upon layer, when the original text at 2 Timothy provides no explanation of a process. And we have such things as "adjectival verbals", and so on, without my knowing whether these were used at that time or whether the anonymous writer intended such a grammatical structure.

The variety of explanations shows the weakness of the original statement. Let me go out on a limb and suggest something even more way out: "all Scripture-inspired-of-God" or "all Scripture is inspired-of-God". Not being a scholar of Greek nor a grammarian, I am quite likely to be shot down in verbal flames.

Yes, which of the Jewish writings were available to Timothy?

Most commentators say that the word was invented at 2 Timothy, although I did locate the statement: "theopneustos (inspired by God) is rare, not being used before the Hel[lenic] period and then only with reference to divination", which I noted at page 5 of my Study. Paul (although likely not the writer of 2 Timothy) invented many ideas that are crucial to Christian mythology. Always remember that he was the earliest writer and that others copied ideas from him. (Hint: eucharist, and significance of baptism.)

As I wrote - read widely from the range of views, argue with yourself, make decisions, be prepared to keep learning and adjusting. The joy is in the hunt, in the mental gymnastics. The Bible is a very human book.

Doug

29

"God-breathed Scriptures"

by Doug Mason in

my study responds to the articles inspiration and canon in the book, insight on the scriptures.

there can be few topics of more significance, regardless of ones attitude to the bible.. http://www.jwstudies.com/god-breathed_scriptures.pdf .

doug.

Doug Mason

Eden,

I understand there would be a few, but I do not have any information at hand on them. I had a very quick look at the www, without being able to locate a list of these words.

We are continually making up new words ("selfie", etc.) and the practice is not new. Even the word "atone" was an invented word:

http://hccl.byu.edu/classes/Rel212eh/Unit%202/15b-WordAtonement.pdf

At issue with theopneustos is that it is foolishness to build a theology on a new word that appears only once in the Scriptures, and that the context does not explain nor define. The later sparse use of the word applied it to non-Scripture, such as a tomb inscription.

The word is an adjective. It is not a verb. It does not describe an action taken by God. It describes the quality of the Hebrew writings that Timothy was exposed to when he was a child. The Bible did not exist when that verse was written.

The other matter of concern is the serious doubt that 2 Timothy was written by Paul, but was actually written by one of his adherents. Therefore, if a relevance could have been found in Paul's writings, it did not come from him.

Likewise with the only other reference raised in this matter - 2 Peter 1:20-21 - serious doubt has existed from the beginning of the Church Fathers that Peter wrote that epistle. Rather, it is dated to about 150 CE and was not written by one of Peter's adherents but by one of Paul's. (Jerusalem and Antioch were at loggerheads - a real tale of two cities). 2 Peter was written by someone familiar with Greek and with Greek thinking, not by an illiterate poor fisherman. Most agree that it is a commentary on the book of Jude and was hence produced much later.

So please accept my inability to help you find that list of "new and invented words". But if you do succeed, I would really love to knw.

Doug